九乡新闻网龙珠z目录:[转帖]清华VS麻省 对比才知道我们的教育是多么失败
来源：百度文库 编辑：九乡新闻网 时间：2024/07/08 17:43:09
这篇文章是我从网上看到的
从中我们可以看出，我们的高等教育存在种种弊端
清华本科5年，和许多同志们一样为着一个闯荡世界的梦想苦苦努力
，98年终于在历尽千辛万苦之后，踏上北美大陆。这两年来当真是感
慨万千，清华的学习生活我算是深有体会，而北美大学的学习生活我
也可以算是领会了个中滋味。相信国内的许多好学上进的DDMM们还处
在一种梦想和憧憬的阶段，如我两年前一样，在这里我穷一己之力，
希望能作一比较和介绍，让大家在国门之内能够了解到清华与北美的
学习生活之同之异与差。切入点我选择的是中国和美国的名牌老大：
清华和MIT。
从生源上讲，美国没有那个学校可以把全国各省的理科状元和前
十名大半收入囊中。MIT虽然始终在理工科方面独占鳌头，但是加州
理工学院、Stanford、Berkeley等名校并不逊色太多。像Stanford更
是以地处硅谷、生产杨致远型的资本家而独具吸引力。从优秀学生的
聚集程度上讲，大概MIT加上Stanford都不足以与清华一拼。
TOEFL和GRE毕竟没白考，上课能听懂百分之八九十。本来用于录
老师讲课内容的单放机只带了一次，也没开录，后来再也没带过。阅
读课文也没有太多的困难（哪有GRE歪词那么多）。美国学生实在是
基础差，又不用功，一百分的作业得不到五十分的一般都是美国人。
（日本、印尼等其他国家人的英文名字读起来可没有美国人的那么顺
）。但是，这里的课程负担可实在是不轻松，一般来说，选三门课上
是标准（不少人只敢选两门）；能上四门课的人堪称不同凡响；五门
课？最好不要想。
我在这里的第一学期上了一门叫《计算机系统设计》得本科课程
，其辛苦程度真实一言难尽。十五个星期内交了十次作业，作了六次
课程设计。有的设计还分几个部分，分开交设计报告。所以设计报告
大概也交了有十次左右。最恐怖的是有一次，十天内要交六份作业或
设计报告，而且当时正值其他几门课正在期中考试。抱怨是没有用的
，老师说："我很抱歉。但这门课很重要，请大家不停的工作。"学生
从一般的逻辑时序电路开始设计（数电都已忘得差不多了）；核心是
自行设计"麻雀虽小五脏俱全"得ALU，单指令周期CPU（single cycle
CPU）；多指令CPU（Multi-cycle CPU）；以直到最后实现流水线（
pipe line）32位MIPS CPU和Cache。一门课下来，所有与计算机CPU
有关的知识全部融会贯通。硬件设计水平也有了很大提高（就是太累
）。
在清华的本科课程中实在找不到这样一门如此实在的集理论实践
于一体的课程。计算机系的TEC-II型试验计算机几经是全国独家了，
但是试验安排并没有触及核心（TEC-II机是微指令时的计算机）。缺
乏动手设计环节是学生对CPU原理的了解比较肤浅。
当初我作微指令实验时曾由茅塞顿开的感觉，但是现在才发现远
远不够。至于全校性选修课《微机原理》的水平就不用说了，至今我
想起老师的一句话还有些心痛--"学通了八位机，十六位机、三十二
位机的原理是一样的"，MIPS怎么可能和十六位CPU相提并论？在
Stanford，本科生也有相似的计算机系统设计课程，但是要求学生用
VHDL语言（当今IC设计标准语言）实现，清华的本科生由几个会用
VHDL？在清华曾上过《操作系统》这门课，要在Linux基础上作四个
project，六个人一组，可以期末一起交。我在计算机系的同学直到
期末前两三周仍叫我不必惊慌，说最后一两周内定会有牛人做出来，
大家都可以搭车。我在这里的情况则不同，也是四个project，三个
人一组，每三周交一个project。如相似之处过多，当即受到质询，
处罚办法抄者被抄者各扣50分（满分100），被罚者早有先例。交作
业时间是某个周日晚11点59分59秒，网上交作业，半秒钟也不许拖延
，到时间传输停止工作，谁也交不成。所以大家只有坐下来勇敢的面
对困难。
其实，三个星期短得不合理，因为第二个星期与Project相关的
课程才讲完。唯一的方法就是熬夜--第三个星期，从晚上九点到凌晨
两三点，公共机房的数十台工作站前座无虚席，几乎每个人都要连续
熬夜；凌晨三点有人开始支撑不住，而熬到六七点的也不乏其人。教
师在上第一节课时曾展示过一块白布，上书"我宣布投降"和几十人的
签名。这份由败在Project手下的学生赠送的礼物被老师悬挂在办公
室的墙上。而我对这门课的感觉只有一句：我开始明白操作在清华，
计算机系的《操作系统》和《计算机原理》是体现了其应有的份量的
。
再有像美国的VLSI设计课程在清华很难找到其应有的设计实践效
果。这里的VLSI设计课程上到深处，学生就可以做出实实在在的ASIC
芯片，然后拿着自己的设计去硅谷或别处工作面试，说："这是我作
的东西。"清华大概没有真正的"企业级"集成电路设计试验课程--这
也不奇怪，全中国现在都在作板子而不是"片子"。美国大学的教授对
授课的认真程度有高下之分，但任何教授都不允许抄袭。这一点我在
前面已经提到了一些。有一个教授的话很据代表性："发现抄袭很难
；但我会竭尽全力。"
另一个共同特点是他们上课一般不会沉闷的让你想睡觉。它们的
幽默虽不像新东方的宋昊那么多，但是往往恰到好处：比如一个教授
说"有的黑客只是看一看，就像女人逛商场"；有一个教授每当学生回
答出一个较难的问题时就赠送一美元；一次课堂上学生回答问题时说
"这要看实际情况（Itdepends）"，教授对大家说"怎么像政客说的话
"……总之，这里你一般碰不到在清华常见的"面苹果"老师。比较认
真的教授的责任心是令人钦佩的。一个教授在学生课程最重的时候，
把家中的电话留给学生，告诉学生说晚十点前可以打电话请教。我有
一个同学修一门课，最后一个Project做到半夜三点时完工，大呼轻
松之余上网解闷，发现一封新的E-mail，原来授课老师也工作到半夜
三点，有设计了一个新的Project叫学生作。
再比如说美国教职人员活着很不轻松，一般没有国家投入这一说
。如果自己不能做出成果拿到企业界的资助，处境就会相当艰难。助
理教授（assistant professor）升副教授可不像国内这么容易。在
princeton，五年内拿不到终身职位（tensure）就请卷铺盖走人。
Princeton大多助理教授都是这种命运。我所在的学校化学系的一个
教授就是被princeton轰出来的，现在已经是某个领域中的带头老大
一级的人物了（天啊，princeton也太横了吧）。像这种人，
Princeton 又会利用其巨大的名望、优厚的待遇和良好的研究条件把
人吸引回来。
前几天和国内同学联系，听说一个现在是直博生的本科同学一学
期要修九门课，下学期则专门为老板出差。另一个硕士生一学期中半
学期旷课为导师出差。首先以美国的课程标准，这样做大概死定了；
其次，美国教授一般会让自己的学生多参加研究工作而不是做重复性
项目。美国的博士生一般有一个资格考试，在硕士期将近结束时进行
。形式时提出一个新兴课题，摆出方案，由五人评议小组审核课题的
新颖程度，意义和方案可行性等。通过资格考试，你才可以在这个课
题上开始你的论文研究。如果评议期间有人就同一课题发表了阶段性
研究成果，你就必须修改课题甚至从头再来（作一次要看遍所有相关
论文，还要做准备性的研究，要半年多时间呢，全废了可够点背的）
。准备资格考试过程中还要修课呢，谁有时间出差？好多教授都让学
生全心准备资格考试。
这种考试算轻松的，UCLA和加州理工学院的化学系博士资格考试
有这么一项：几个教授从某篇新发表的文章中（博士生大概还读不到
或并不在专项领域内）提取课题，让博士生在两三天内提出解决方案
（人家可是作了好几个月才发表文章），以此测验学生对前沿研究的
敏锐程度。这种考试有时一个通过的也没有。合格标准是十次中必须
通过四到五次，过不了就对博士梦说永别吧。导师也许会帮助说话，
但是像加州理工学院明确规定，百分之二十左右的博士生再优秀也拿
不到博士，我可知道一个北大生物系的女生berkeley苦战四年，最终
落马，现在硅谷某生物公司工作，年薪两万多（这点钱在物价飞涨的
硅谷可不太好混）。
据说，加州理工学院六年博士毕业者就是天才，MIT有些博士生
则耗时九年。清华的博士水平是很高的，但有时导师会让学生不用参
加自己开的课的考试，有时会在该做论文研究时让你出差，然后再想
办法让你的论文不战而胜……操作系统》这门课的MIPS模拟平台和基
础代码（不是Linux或MINIX）是由berkeley的一位教授设计的，现在
为多个大学采用。值得注意的是这是一个非盈利的项目，对于这位教
授的升迁和获取工业界的资助也没有任何帮助，而且不知耗费这个教
授多少可用来做项目赚钱的时间.本文写到此处，我不禁怀疑自己太
悲观或是忘本，TG期间我也是靠课程轻松和抄兄弟们的作业才挺过来
的。但我清楚，即使像VLSI这样的硬件抛开不说，清华的课程管理决
不能与MIT相比，也许六十年代是可以的。每一个清华人在海外都享
受着清华两字所带来的荣耀，我衷心希望清华成为一个让平庸者却步
，让挑战者兴奋，让优秀者更优秀的世界级学府；而不是只靠名气招
揽人才却只提供平庸的教育。这才是我写本文的初衷。
Comments
值得深省！
Posted by: Juana at June 25, 2003 10:18 PMI agree with you!!!And who can do better?
Posted by: 刘柱 at February 21, 2004 06:19 AMI agree with you!!!And who can do better?
Posted by: 刘柱 at February 21, 2004 06:19 AMI agree with you!!!And who can do better?
Posted by: 刘柱 at February 21, 2004 06:19 AMInteresting blog, does this site get lots of activity or is it usually slow around here?
Posted by: Lorren at March 28, 2004 09:43 AMvery nice site
---------------
Gie?da Samochodowa
http://www.motonet.pl
xiuli\‘Blog of Online-edu - is one of the most respected blogs on the net. Topics like: 两本好书《与成功有约》《第五修炼》 or 互联教育体系－博录 and my favourite 网站blog系统管理暂行规定 are great. Keep up the good work! Thanks for the comment.
Posted by: penis enlargement at September 25, 2004 08:34 PMIf you want your spouse to listen and pay strict attention to every
word you say, talk in your sleep.
Mortgage Refinance http://www.refinance-mortgage-com.com
Happiness isn‘t something you experience; it‘s something you remember.
-- Oscar Levant
Home Equity Loan Rate http://www.home-equity-loan-x.com
Twenty Percent of Zero is Better than Nothing.
-- Walt Kelly
Cash Advance http://www.paydayloans.be
I‘d love to go out with you, but it‘s my parakeet‘s bowling night.
Payday Loans http://www.paydayloans.be
I‘ll rob that rich person and give it to some poor deserving slob.
That will *prove* I‘m Robin Hood.
-- Daffy Duck, Robin Hood Daffy, [1958, Chuck Jones]
Online Dating http://www.online-dating-com.com
Those who express random thoughts to legislative committees are often
surprised and appalled to find themselves the instigators of law.
-- Mark B. Cohen
Credit Report http://credit-report.se.com
Professor Gorden Newell threw another shutout in last week‘s Chem.
Eng. 130 midterm. Once again no student received a single point on
his exam. Newell has now tossed five shutouts this quarter. Newell‘s
earned exam average has now dropped to a phenomenal 30%
Online Casino http://www.online-casino-topez.com
A celebrity is a person who is known for his well-knownness.
Poker http://www.party-poker-x.com
... A booming voice says, Wrong, cretin!, and you notice that you
have turned into a pile of dust.
Cash Advance http://www.cashadvance.be
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me. I‘m afraid of widths.
-- Steve Wright
Cash Advance Loan http://www.cashadvance.be
When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened
or not; but my faculties are decaying now and soon I shall be so I
cannot remember any but the things that never happened. It is sad to
go to pieces like this but we all have to do it.
-- Mark Twain
Direct TV http://www.direct-tv-com.com
There is nothing wrong with Southern California that a rise in the
ocean level wouldn‘t cure.
-- Ross MacDonald
Video Poker http://www.video-poker-com.com
Adult, n.:
One old enough to know better.
Dating http://www.online-dating-com.com
Real Users find the one combination of bizarre input values that shuts
down the system for days.
Phentermine http://online-prescription-pharmacy.com/Phentermine.htm
Rule of Defactualization:
Information deteriorates upward through bureaucracies.
Tramadol http://online-prescription-pharmacy.com/Tramadol.htm
A radioactive cat has eighteen half-lives.
Phentermine http://phentermine.se.com
Acting is an art which consists of keeping the audience from
coughing.
Payday Loan http://www.paydayloans.be
Magnocartic, adj.:
Any automobile that, when left unattended, attracts shopping
carts.
-- Sniglets, Rich Hall & Friends
Payday Advance http://www.paydayloans.be
highest quality replica jewelry Rolex watch, wrist watch, Replica Watch purchase your affordable realistic ROLEX REPLICA watch today at http://www.pro-rolex-replica-watches.com
Posted by: Rolex Replica at December 8, 2004 04:43 AMhighest quality replica jewelry Rolex watch, wrist watch, Replica Watch purchase your affordable realistic ROLEX REPLICA watch today at http://www.pro-rolex-replica-watches.com
Posted by: Rolex Replica at December 8, 2004 08:53 AMU: There‘s a U -- a Unicorn!
Run right up and rub its horn.
Look at all those points you‘re losing!
UMBER HULKS are so confusing.
-- The Roguelet‘s ABC
Levitra http://www.levitra-medication.com
It may be bad manners to talk with your mouth full, but it isn‘t too
good either if you speak when your head is empty.
BlackJack http://www.blackjack-casino-x.com
Your home electrical system is basically a bunch of wires that
bring electricity into your home and take if back out before it has a
chance to kill you. This is called a circuit. The most common home
electrical problem is when the circuit is broken by a circuit
breaker; this causes the electricity to back up in one of the wires
until it bursts out of an outlet in the form of sparks, which can
damage your carpet. The best way to avoid broken circuits is to change
your fuses regularly.
Another common problem is that the lights flicker. This
sometimes means that your electrical system is inadequate, but more
often it means that your home is possessed by demons, in which case
you‘ll need to get a caulking gun and some caulking. If you‘re not
sure whether your house is possessed, see The Amityville Horror, a
fine documentary film based on an actual book. Or call in a licensed
electrician, who is trained to spot the signs of demonic possession,
such as blood coming down the stairs, enormous cats on the dinette
table, etc.
-- Dave Barry, The Taming of the Screw
Casino Games http://www.online-casino-games-x.com
Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.
Online Gambling http://www.online-gambling-com.com
Pure drivel tends to drive ordinary drivel off the TV screen.
Flexeril http://www.buy-cheap-flexeril.com
America may be unique in being a country which has leapt from barbarism
to decadence without touching civilization.
-- John O‘Hara
Paxil http://www.paxil-pharmacy.com
Whatever is not nailed down is mine. What I can pry loose is not
nailed down.
-- Collis P. Huntingdon
Prozac http://www.buy-prozac-prescription-medication.com
We may not return the affection of those who like us, but we always
respect their good judgement.
Cash Advance http://www.personal-cash-advance.com
Positive, adj.:
Mistaken at the top of one‘s voice.
-- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil‘s Dictionary
Payday Loan http://www.epaycash.com
Hacker‘s Law:
The belief that enhanced understanding will necessarily stir a
nation to action is one of mankind‘s oldest illusions.
Online Poker http://www.party-poker-x.com
Comparing information and knowledge is like asking whether the fatness
of a pig is more or less green than the designated hitter rule.
-- David Guaspari
Payday Loans http://www.epaycash.com
What this country needs is a dime that will buy a good five-cent
bagel.
Texas Holdem http://www.party-poker-x.com
You cannot kill time without injuring eternity.
Poker Party http://www.party-poker-x.com
PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY VERY WEIRD CAN GET INTO SENSITIVE POSITIONS AND HAVE A TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON HISTORY.
- George W Bush, Poker http://party-poker.player.gb.com
The 80‘s -- when you can‘t tell hairstyles from chemotherapy.
Party Poker http://party-poker.player.gb.com
You cannot kill time without injuring eternity.
satellite tv http://dish-network-satellite-dish.com
Keep America beautiful. Swallow your beer cans.
Online Poker http://party-poker.player.gb.com
Got Mole problems?
Call Avogardo 6.02 x 10^23
Texas Holdem http://party-poker.player.gb.com
I‘VE CHANGED MY STYLE SOMEWHAT, AS YOU KNOW. I‘M LESS...I PONTIFICATE LESS, ALTHOUGH IT MAY BE HARD TO TELL IT FROM THIS SHOW. AND I‘M MORE INTERACTING WITH PEOPLE.
- George W Bush,SOUTH CAROLINA REPUBLICAN DEBATE, FEB. 15, 2000 Payday Loan http://www.paylesspaydayloans.com
As I was passing Project MAC,
I met a Quux with seven hacks.
Every hack had seven bugs;
Every bug had seven manifestations;
Every manifestation had seven symptoms.
Symptoms, manifestations, bugs, and hacks,
How many losses at Project MAC?
Texas Hold em http://party-poker.player.gb.com
It is not true that life is one damn thing after another -- it‘s one
damn thing over and over.
-- Edna St. Vincent Millay
Loan http://www.epaycash.com
Ask not for whom the telephone bell tolls ... if thou art in the
bathtub, it tolls for thee.
Celebrex http://www.cheap-celebrex-prescriptions.com
The scum also rises.
-- Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
Diet Pills http://www.discounted-diet-pills.com
Lackland‘s Laws:
(1) Never be first.
(2) Never be last.
(3) Never volunteer for anything
Texas Holdem http://www.texas-holdem-com.com
THIS IS PLEDGE WEEK FOR THE FORTUNE PROGRAM
If you like the fortune program, why not support it now with your
contribution of a pithy fortune, clean or obscene? We cannot continue
without your support. Less than 14% of all fortune users are
contributors. That means that 86% of you are getting a free ride. We
can‘t go on like this much longer. Federal cutbacks mean less money
for fortunes, and unless user contributions increase to make up the
difference, the fortune program will have to shut down between midnight
and 8 a.m. Don‘t let this happen. Mail your fortunes right now to
fortune. Just type in your favorite pithy saying. Do it now before
you forget. Our target is 300 new fortunes by the end of the week.
Don‘t miss out. All fortunes will be acknowledged. If you contribute
30 fortunes or more, you will receive a free subscription to The
Fortune Hunter, our monthly program guide. If you contribute 50 or
more, you will receive a free Fortune Hunter coffee mug ....
Texas Hold em http://www.texas-holdem-com.com
I‘VE GOT A RECORD, A RECORD THAT IS CONSERVATIVE AND A RECORD THAT IS COMPASSIONATED.
- George W Bush Poker http://www.internet-texas-holdem-poker.biz
Higgeldy Piggeldy,
Hamlet of Elsinore
Ruffled the critics by
Dropping this bomb:
Phooey on Freud and his
Psychoanalysis --
Oedipus, Shmoedipus,
I just love Mom.
Pocker http://www.internet-texas-holdem-poker.biz
Speak roughly to your little boy,
And beat him when he sneezes:
He only does it to annoy
Because he knows it teases.
Wow! wow! wow!
I speak severely to my boy,
And beat him when he sneezes:
For he can thoroughly enjoy
The pepper when he pleases!
Wow! wow! wow!
-- Lewis Carrol, Alice in Wonderland
Poker http://www.party-poker-player.com
Tax reform means Don‘t tax you, don‘t tax me, tax that fellow behind
the tree.
-- Russell Long
Amoxicillin http://online-prescription-pharmacy.com/Amoxicillin.htm
Expect the worst, it‘s the least you can do.
debt consolidation http://www.consolidatenow.org
Do not drink coffee in early a.m. It will keep you awake until noon.
free credit report http://www.credit-talk.com
Only adults have difficulty with childproof caps.
Clonazepam http://online-prescription-pharmacy.com/Clonazepam.htm
Text processing has made it possible to right-justify any idea, even
one which cannot be justified on any other grounds.
-- J. Finnegan, USC.
Party Pocker http://party-poker.player.gb.com
Celebrex Lawsuit Monday 27 December 2004 02:50:15
Celebrex side effects Monday 27 December 2004 02:50:15
Celebrex death Monday 27 December 2004 02:50:15
Celebrex danger Monday 27 December 2004 02:50:15
Celebrex class-action lawsuit and Monday 27 December 2004 02:50:15 of course
Celebrex attorney and Monday 27 December 2004 02:50:15 of course
Celebrex lawyer Monday 27 December 2004 02:50:15
Celebrex stroke and Monday 27 December 2004 02:50:15
Celebrex recall Monday 27 December 2004 02:50:15
Celebrex heart attack
Payday loans http://payday-loans.order.gb.com Sunday 02 January 2005 22:47:46 Credit Cards http://credit-cards.order.gb.com Sunday 02 January 2005 22:47:46 Loans http://loans.order.gb.com Sunday 02 January 2005 22:47:46 Mortgages http://mortgages.order.gb.com Sunday 02 January 2005 22:47:46 Credit http://credit.order.gb.com Sunday 02 January 2005 22:47:46 Car insurance http://car-insurance.order.gb.com Sunday 02 January 2005 22:47:46
Posted by: payday loans at January 3, 2005 05:46 AMThere is nothing wrong with Southern California that a rise in the
ocean level wouldn‘t cure.
-- Ross MacDonald
Party Poker http://party-poker.seo.se.com Texas Holdem http://texas-holdem.seo.se.com Black Jack http://black-jack-casino.seo.se.com online casino http://online-casino-games.seo.se.com holdem poker http://texas-holdem-poker.seo.se.com online gambling http://online-gambling.seo.se.com online texas holdem http://online-texas-holdem.seo.se.com free video poker http://free-video-poker.seo.se.com texas holdem http://texas-holdem-poker-rules.seo.se.com Online Texas Hold em http://texas-holdem-online.seo.se.com Online casino http://tropez-online-casino.seo.se.com Video Poker http://video-poker.seo.se.com Online Casino http://casino-online.seo.se.com Poker casino http://poker-casino.seo.se.com Texas HoldEm Tips http://texas-holdem-poker-tips.seo.se.com Texas HoldEm Strategy http://texas-holdem-strategy.seo.se.com Play Video Poker http://play-video-poker.seo.se.com Clonazepam http://www.clonazepam.be Phentermine http://www.phentermine-com.com Levitra http://www.levitra-com.com Paxil http://www.paxil.be
And as we stand on the edge of darkness
Let our chant fill the void
That others may know
In the land of the night
The ship of the sun
Is drawn by
The grateful dead.
-- Tibetan Book of the Dead, ca. 4000 BC.
The sun was shining on the sea,
Shining with all his might:
He did his very best to make
The billows smooth and bright --
And this was very odd, because it was
The middle of the night.
-- Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Payday Loans http://www.payday-loans.be
The Seventh Commandments for Technicians
Work thou not on energized equipment, for if thou dost, thy
fellow workers will surely buy beers for thy widow and console her in
other ways.
cash advance http://www.cash-advance.be
I KNOW THAT HUMAN BEING AND FISH CAN COEXIST PEACEFULLY. --GEORGE W. BUSH, SEPT. 29, 2000 Phentermine http://phentermine.seo.se.com Airforce Payday Loans http://www.airforce-payday-loans.com Military Payday Loans http://www.airforce-payday-loans.com Military Payday Loans http://www.military-payday-loans.com Airforce Payday Loans http://www.military-payday-loans.com Marine Corps Payday Loans http://www.military-payday-loans.com Navy Payday Loans http://www.military-payday-loans.com BlackJack http://black-jack-casino.seo.se.com Play Black Jack http://black-jack-casino.seo.se.com Phentermine http://phentermine.seo.se.com Buy Phentermine http://phentermine.seo.se.com Online Gambling http://online-gambling.seo.se.com Texas Holdem http://online-texas-holdem.seo.se.com Texas Hold em Poker http://online-texas-holdem.seo.se.com Video Poker http://play-video-poker.seo.se.com Dish Network http://www.dish-network-satellite-dish.com Satellite Dish http://www.dish-network-satellite-dish.com Dish Network http://www.satellite-dish.be Satellite Dish http://www.satellite-dish.be Direct TV http://www.direct-tv-x.com Directv http://www.direct-tv-x.com Phentermine http://phentermine.se.com Buy Phentermine http://phentermine.se.com Video Poker http://www.video-poker-player.biz Play Video Poker http://www.video-poker-player.biz
Posted by: Phentermine at January 19, 2005 01:13 PM